Deciding between Groningen and Leipzig

Hello!
I'm a student from Croatia looking to enroll either in uni Groningen or Leipzig, but I'm having a really hard time deciding, so I thought I could say some pros and cons, and you could give me your opinions.

Leipzig:

• +much cheaper (free tuition+ much lower cost of apartments)
• +I already know a bit of German (around A2) so I feel like it would be easier to live in Germany
• +I have relatives that work in Germany, so it'd be easier if I needed help with something
• -on every site that I look at for rankings, Leipzig is quite a bit lower that Groningen
• -I feel like (just from reading the descriptions on their site) that they focus much more on getting you into a job in the industry as quickly as possible after a BCs. Again, could be completely wrong and also not necessarily a bad thing, but it's not what I want.)
• -the program lasts 4 years and while I would be getting 240 ECTS from what I've read that isn't really necessary for getting into a good masters (planing on trying for Zürich)

Groningen:

• +I feel like it's a much better university
• -the cost of living (particularly the cost of apartments and the tuition)

All in all, I think that I'd definitely go for Groningen if it wasn't for the financial side (my family can afford it, but it just wouldn't be as loose with the finances, especially since I have a brother who is also starting college next year)

Thanks for reading and I hope that you could give me your thoughts, so I can be sure in my decision.

Welcome to PF.

You didn't mention what program you will be applying to, so I'd assume you are asking about the Physics departments? Do you have any particular specialties in mind?

Yeah, sorry I was talking about their physics programs. I don't really know in what I want to specialize

mih1451 said:

Yeah, sorry I was talking about their physics programs. I don't really know in what I want to specialize

Perhaps, like many of us at some point, you want to specialize on everything.

Before deciding I would make sure that the programs in question meet the admissions requirements for ETH's Physics master's program. The admissions requirement is for a degree equivalent to their bachelor's of Physics and needs to include:

Part 1: Basic knowledge and skills
Part 1 covers basic knowledge from the disciplines Mathematics and Physics. The substance of the following course units is required:

1a Mathematics
− Analysis I
− Analysis II
− Linear Algebra I
− Linear Algebra II
− Numerical Methods
− Computer Science
− Complex Analysis
− Methods of Mathematical Physics I
− Methods of Mathematical Physics II

1b Physics
− Mechanics and Heat
− Oscillations and Waves
− Electricity and Magnetism
− Quantum Physics

1c Practicals, Proseminars, Semester Theses
− Physics practicals
− Semester thesis projects (experimental or theoretical) and proseminars

Part 2: Subject-specific knowledge and skills
Part 2 covers specific knowledge in the disciplines of Physics. The substance of the following course units is required:

A) Theoretical Physics
− General Mechanics
− Electrodynamics
− Quantum Mechanics I
− * Quantum Mechanics II
− * Theory of Heat
− * Continuum Mechanics

B) Core subjects of Experimental Physics
− * Astrophysics
− * Solid State Physics
− * Nuclear and Particle Physics
− * Quantum Electronics

From the course unit groups marked with an asterisk (*) the content of at least four course units is required, of which at least one must belong to Theoretical Physics and at least two must belong to the core subjects of Experimental Physics.

https://ethz.ch/content/dam/ethz/sp...Physics (non-binding english translation).pdf

If both programs are equally suitable, then I would by all means pick the cheaper one to attend. European universities tend not to get hung up on the "prestige" or ranking of your undergraduate institution, and are not likely to discriminate on that basis so long as you have a solid foundation in the subject in question.

gwnorth said:

Before deciding I would make sure that the programs in question meet the admissions requirements for ETH's Physics master's program. The admissions requirement is for a degree equivalent to their bachelor's of Physics and needs to include:

Part 1: Basic knowledge and skills
Part 1 covers basic knowledge from the disciplines Mathematics and Physics. The substance of the following course units is required:

1a Mathematics
− Analysis I
− Analysis II
− Linear Algebra I
− Linear Algebra II
− Numerical Methods
− Computer Science
− Complex Analysis
− Methods of Mathematical Physics I
− Methods of Mathematical Physics II

1b Physics
− Mechanics and Heat
− Oscillations and Waves
− Electricity and Magnetism
− Quantum Physics

1c Practicals, Proseminars, Semester Theses
− Physics practicals
− Semester thesis projects (experimental or theoretical) and proseminars

Part 2: Subject-specific knowledge and skills
Part 2 covers specific knowledge in the disciplines of Physics. The substance of the following course units is required:

A) Theoretical Physics
− General Mechanics
− Electrodynamics
− Quantum Mechanics I
− * Quantum Mechanics II
− * Theory of Heat
− * Continuum Mechanics

B) Core subjects of Experimental Physics
− * Astrophysics
− * Solid State Physics
− * Nuclear and Particle Physics
− * Quantum Electronics

From the course unit groups marked with an asterisk (*) the content of at least four course units is required, of which at least one must belong to Theoretical Physics and at least two must belong to the core subjects of Experimental Physics.

https://ethz.ch/content/dam/ethz/special-interest/phys/department/studies/master/Programme Regulations 2014 MSc Physics (non-binding english translation).pdf

If both programs are equally suitable, then I would by all means pick the cheaper one to attend. European universities tend not to get hung up on the "prestige" or ranking of your undergraduate institution, and are not likely to discriminate on that basis so long as you have a solid foundation in the subject in question.

Thanks a bunch! I've checked and it seems that both univeristies fufill the requirements. I'm still a little on the fence just because the cheaper program lasts a year longer and I saw that ETH Zurich also looks at the uni world rankings during applying.

I know from experience that the physics program in Groningen is excellent (I did my msc and PhD there), the Zernike (where STEM houses) has extended recently partly due to Feringa's Nobel prize in chemistry, and the city is fantastic for (foreign) students. If you're able to find a place to live that is, because housing is a serious problem.

Dutch is hard to learn for foreigners, but everyone speaks English anyway.

haushofer said:

Dutch is hard to learn for foreigners, but everyone speaks English anyway.

My first trip to NIKHEF I asked my host about the Dutch words for "please", "thanks you" etc. His advice? Just use English.

Vanadium 50 said:

My first trip to NIKHEF I asked my host about the Dutch words for "please", "thanks you" etc. His advice? Just use English.

One of my Italian collegues was persistent to learn Dutch, but he also was to be found in bars three times a week. Everyone around him knew he was determined to learn Dutch. After four years he spoke better Dutch than me

In A'dam it's even worse. You really have to wear a T-Shirt saying "speak Dutch to me" if you want to succeed.

Anyway, @mih1451 : if you have any specific questions about Groningen, I'll be happy to answer them. And become a member of TFV Professor Francken or FMF if you pick Groningen. That's the best way to connect with your peers, they organize seminars and (very affordable) study trips and the atmosphere there is great.

But as I said: housing is a notorious problem. If you want to start after the summer, you may want to start yesterday looking for a room :P