Containing helium for a few hours

datadrug · Dec 10, 2022

Hello experts,

First post here, and the reason I have found this forum is because I've spent the past few hours trying to figure something out.

I'm in the field of data recovery, and we are starting to see helium filled drives.
They are starting to be filled with HE due to factors like less drag inside the HDD.
Drives, sometimes require internal work. We do this everyday. However, when we work on a helium drive, after prying the case open we can only extract data for a few minutes before the read/write heads die due to operating on air vs HE.

Is there any way we could design such a enclosure that we could pump helium into, that would allow us to fully image the drives instead of using multiple sets of read/write heads per case?

Thank you for your inputs.

jrmichler · Dec 10, 2022

It sounds like you are looking for a glove box. It's a sealed box with built-in rubber gloves, a window, and an access port. You insert your drive, purge the air out using helium, then open the drive. This image is from a random hit using search term glove box:

datadrug · Dec 10, 2022

jrmichler said:

It sounds like you are looking for a glove box. It's a sealed box with built-in rubber gloves, a window, and an access port. You insert your drive, purge the air out using helium, then open the drive. This image is from a random hit using search term glove box:
View attachment 318594

Hi!

There is no need to operate on the device while it is running.
Ideally it would only be needed a box to purge oxygen and insert helium while the HDD is connected to a power and sata port.

f95toli · Dec 11, 2022

If you don't need to actually handle the device in an helium atmosphere, then all you need is a reasonable vacuum-tight enclose with feedthroughs for the power and SATA and then a valve (probably a T-valve) that allows you to pump out most of the air (using e.g. membrane pump) and then a small Helium cylinder with a suitable regulator to back-fill.

Although I doubt you can find commercial off-the-shelf product that does this, you should be able to get a company specialising in custom vacuum products to make something suitable (there many such companies).

it should not be difficult to set up, but the person using it would still need a bit of training on how to use a regular and any H&S issues around compressed gases (this would be no different than for using protective gases for e.g. welding).

datadrug · Dec 11, 2022

f95toli said:

If you don't need to actually handle the device in an helium atmosphere, then all you need is a reasonable vacuum-tight enclose with feedthroughs for the power and SATA and then a valve (probably a T-valve) that allows you to pump out most of the air (using e.g. membrane pump) and then a small Helium cylinder with a suitable regulator to back-fill.

Although I doubt you can find commercial off-the-shelf product that does this, you should be able to get a company specialising in custom vacuum products to make something suitable (there many such companies).

it should not be difficult to set up, but the person using it would still need a bit of training on how to use a regular and any H&S issues around compressed gases (this would be no different than for using protective gases for e.g. welding).

Yes! This us exactly what I have been thinking!

Do you have any companies you know that you could refer?

As a bonus, where should I get said training? (Or atleast documentation)

Thank you so much for your input!

jrmichler · Dec 11, 2022

f95toli said:

If you don't need to actually handle the device in an helium atmosphere, then all you need is a reasonable vacuum-tight enclose with feedthroughs for the power and SATA and then a valve (probably a T-valve) that allows you to pump out most of the air (using e.g. membrane pump) and then a small Helium cylinder with a suitable regulator to back-fill.

Could you do this with a plastic bag? Put the device in the bag, seal the opening using a weight on a piece of foam rubber to hold it shut while molding around the cables and tube, suck the air out by mouth through a small tube, connect the tube to a helium cylinder, inflate, then keep a low flow to counteract leakage. A bread bag would probably work, or a Zip Lock bag if you want a bag without printing on it.

datadrug · Dec 11, 2022

jrmichler said:

Could you do this with a plastic bag? Put the device in the bag, seal the opening using a weight on a piece of foam rubber to hold it shut while molding around the cables and tube, suck the air out by mouth through a small tube, connect the tube to a helium cylinder, inflate, then keep a low flow to counteract leakage. A bread bag would probably work, or a Zip Lock bag if you want a bag without printing on it.

One thing about these drives is that they also need a certain pressure to work optimally.
Our solution so far is by tricking the sensors into believing the readings are correct.

I think that a metal container, with 2KF connectors for air out and helium in + another connector for the sata/power combo cable would be perfect.

The last thing I believe we will have trouble with, physics-wise is what kind of HE mix the manufacturer is using. As far as I know, party balloon HE is way less pure then medical. Wondering if there is a simple way to figure that out also...

Tom.G · Dec 11, 2022

datadrug said:

Wondering if there is a simple way to figure that out also...

You could ask the manufacturer, but I wouldn't expect an answer.
Or have a lab analyze it. Since that may involve a Mass Spectrometer expect many $$$.

IIRC, Helium is used as part of the 'air' mix for Deep Sea Diving, so that may be a source for some pure stuff. Or specify 'Research Grade' when you Google search for a source.

DaveE · Dec 12, 2022

Have you tried a google search yet? Personally, I find it to be a very useful tool.

Here are a couple of 1st page links I got from "helium purity used in hard disk drives:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/268001666_Helium_Gas_Filling_and_Extraction_during_the_HDD_Manufacturing_Process
https://zephyrsolutions.com/what-are-the-different-grades-of-helium-and-what-are-they-used-for/

I would imagine that purity isn't a big deal for data recovery since drive lifetime isn't an issue for you. It will be in the trash in a day or so anyway, right?

f95toli · Dec 12, 2022

Even standard A grade Helium which is widely available (there is no need to buy balloon gas) is very pure (at least 99.99%). The only time you would need the extra pure stuff (99.999%) is for certain cryogenics applications (e.g. pulse tube coolers). The latter is very expensive and is not something you would use in an application like this.
You probably don't need very much, a regular 200 bar cylinder would last a very long time.

One issue is that there is currently a world-wide shortage of helium, so you might struggle to find a supplier which accepts new customers.

datadrug · Dec 12, 2022

DaveE said:

Have you tried a google search yet? Personally, I find it to be a very useful tool.

Here are a couple of 1st page links I got from "helium purity used in hard disk drives:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/268001666_Helium_Gas_Filling_and_Extraction_during_the_HDD_Manufacturing_Process
https://zephyrsolutions.com/what-are-the-different-grades-of-helium-and-what-are-they-used-for/

I would imagine that purity isn't a big deal for data recovery since drive lifetime isn't an issue for you. It will be in the trash in a day or so anyway, right?

I did. Both links provide nothing new to what we know.
But you are probably right, purity shouldn't be an issue, however pressure will.

f95toli · Dec 12, 2022

datadrug said:

I did. Both links provide nothing new to what we know.
But you are probably right, purity shouldn't be an issue, however pressure will.

I would be surprised if the pressure inside the drive is very different from 1 Bar, simply because it would make the construction much more complicated. They might be using a slight overpressure to prevent air from leaking in, but they are not going to be make the drive into pressure vessel.

256bits · Dec 12, 2022

datadrug said:

TL;DR Summary: Could one design a enclosure that would allow you to maintain a specific helium level during 3/4 hours?

after prying the case open we can only extract data for a few minutes before the read/write heads die due to operating on air vs HE.

I would have thought the spindle motor would have overheated and died in air due to the extra current needed to turn it at rpm. What would be making the heads malfunction?

datadrug · Dec 12, 2022

256bits said:

I would have thought the spindle motor would have overheated and died in air due to the extra current needed to turn it at rpm. What would be making the heads malfunction?

Without going into much details, there are ways to trick some sensors on HE drives. This forces the spindle to spin at the desired RPM, but the head height ends up being the issue that kills the new head assembly.
With HE r/w happens on a lower plane compared to air. My hope with this research project is to stabilize the drive in a small helium environment to extract data without spending big $ in donor parts.
Specially this is key because modern HE drives are signed with AES keys that prevent us from loading modified firmware or even send some specific VSCs.

256bits · Dec 12, 2022

datadrug said:

, but the head height ends up being the issue that kills the new head assembly

Then there won't be much difference, if using 99.9% or 99.999% purity of He, in head height, as the viscosity is already He dominant for both. Slight contamination from air might not matter as long as it is clean.

datadrug · Dec 12, 2022

256bits said:

Then there won't be much difference, if using 99.9% or 99.999% purity of He, in head height, as the viscosity is already He dominant for both. Slight contamination from air might not matter as long as it is clean.

Yep, the trick will be stabilizing the enclosure with HE and then reading it.
I'll be making some questions to manufacturers in the hopes of creating said enclosure.
A little bit scared on the pricing though.

f95toli · Dec 12, 2022

The enclosure shouldn't be too pricey (you don't need high vacuum), any machine shop would be able to fabricate that part (you only need a standard rubber gasket); but one you add the cost of the pump, regulator, various vacuum parts He cylinder and the work required you are probably looking at a few thousand dollars.

I suspect the main technical problem will be to find a vacuum feedthrough that works with SATA. the rest should be very straightforward if you can find a company that know what they are doing. If you were in the UK I could probably even suggest someone, but I assume you are in the US.

datadrug · Dec 12, 2022

f95toli said:

The enclosure shouldn't be too pricey (you don't need high vacuum), any machine shop would be able to fabricate that part (you only need a standard rubber gasket); but one you add the cost of the pump, regulator, various vacuum parts He cylinder and the work required you are probably looking at a few thousand dollars.

I suspect the main technical problem will be to find a vacuum feedthrough that works with SATA. the rest should be very straightforward if you can find a company that know what they are doing. If you were in the UK I could probably even suggest someone, but I assume you are in the US.

I'm in Portugal.
UK manufacturing is not a problem.

datadrug · Dec 13, 2022

f95toli said:

The enclosure shouldn't be too pricey (you don't need high vacuum), any machine shop would be able to fabricate that part (you only need a standard rubber gasket); but one you add the cost of the pump, regulator, various vacuum parts He cylinder and the work required you are probably looking at a few thousand dollars.

I suspect the main technical problem will be to find a vacuum feedthrough that works with SATA. the rest should be very straightforward if you can find a company that know what they are doing. If you were in the UK I could probably even suggest someone, but I assume you are in the US.

Also, I think I have a workaround for the sata feedthrough. Can you please pm me the guy you think can make the enclosure?

hutchphd · Dec 29, 2023

jrmichler said:

Could you do this with a plastic bag? Put the device in the bag, seal the opening using a weight on a piece of foam rubber to hold it shut while molding around the cables and tube, suck the air out by mouth through a small tube, connect the tube to a helium cylinder,

I am always amazed at how well the Mylar "party balloons" hold He gas. A few percent gas osmotic loss over days at STP. Also He is very good at heat conduction (ask any deep saturation diver) because of its mass I suppose.
This should not be expensive at all.

Nik_2213 · Jan 1, 2024

Labs running 'Gas Chromatography' often use Helium as a carrier. College labs may deploy 'Lecture Bottles', akin to Scuba 'Pony Bottles'. Ask around ??

Containing helium for a few hours

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