Help identifying this Tumbling object in a night sky photo from Namibia

timmdeeg · Oct 22, 2023

I have received this image from someone in Namibia recently at the Kiripotib Astrofarm.

Has anyone an idea what could cause such a strange trajectory?

russ_watters · Oct 22, 2023

If we had the exact time, location and direction we could probably identify it unless it was an airplane (so, exposure and focal length too).

Vanadium 50 · Oct 22, 2023

Why do you say "tumbling", which implies rotation. Is there something I am missing?

Baluncore · Oct 22, 2023

timmdeeg said:

TL;DR Summary: Question: What tumbling object causes this trajectory?

Has anyone an idea what could cause such a strange trajectory?

The line in the top right is a satellite track. It shows that the telescope was steady, and the stars show it was tracking.

The partial track could be a high altitude aircraft, flying on autopilot through disturbed air with variable crosswinds, which explains the wandering. It appears to have a strobe light that marks a series of dots along its path.

Baluncore · Oct 22, 2023

Hosea Kutako International Airport, Windhoek, Namibia, is overflown by international flights between Capetown and Western Europe, and between Johannesburg and the East Coast USA.

Ibix · Oct 22, 2023

Vanadium 50 said:

Why do you say "tumbling", which implies rotation. Is there something I am missing?

Are you on a small screen? If so you'll need to zoom in quite a bit to see that the track is jagged. Something corkscrewing along doesn't seem implausible as an a priori explanation for it.

Vanadium 50 · Oct 22, 2023

I am visually impaired, yes. But the word "tumbling" implies rotation, and not a a jagged path. There are probably thousands of asteroids that are tumbling in perfectly elliptical orbits.

phinds · Oct 22, 2023

Vanadium 50 said:

Why do you say "tumbling", which implies rotation. Is there something I am missing?

timmdeeg · Oct 23, 2023

I have made hundreds of such photos myself (for astrophotography) and never saw anything comparable.

Lights of airplanes show parallel tracks, whereas "amplitude" and "wavelength" of this curve are quite constant which seems to indicate that something rotates. But if correct this would require that the object reflects/emits light apart from its center of mass. The satellite track above (photo OP) is much more faint which could indicate, that this object is much closer. - Also very weird, the object suddenly becomes visible without transition.

a crop

Baluncore · Oct 23, 2023

timmdeeg said:

Also very weird, the object suddenly becomes visible without transition.

What do you mean by that?
We do not know which way it travelled. The end of the track on the image could be the start or end of the camera exposure, or entry or exit from the Earth's shadow, or they might have just turned the light off. How can we be sure it is not a computer modified fake image, designed to waste our time?

We have no idea of the details of the image. Photographer, date, time window of exposure, lat/lng of observatory, RA/Dec of telescope, magnification, is North Up, identity of three bright stars in the field?

The obvious observation is that it must remain a UFO, until you can provide sufficient details to make identification possible.

Vanadium 50 · Oct 23, 2023

Ibix said:

Something corkscrewing along

I would not call that "tumbling". I would simply call it "rotation".

I would restrict the word "tumbling" to motion about a body's intermediate principal axis. Unlike the other two axes, this is unstable. I don't see that here. I don't see anything that can't be explained by a spinning object that is more reflective in parts,

timmdeeg · Oct 23, 2023

Vanadium 50 said:

I would not call that "tumbling". I would simply call it "rotation".

Yes agreed. It is as if a rotating lengthy object reflects light at one end quite uniformly.

@Baluncore I know the person from whom I have got this the image, no doubt about seriousness. North is up.

Such lightframes as we call them show about one to some degrees of the sky depending on the focal-length of the scope. Of course I could ask for more details, e.g. date, exposure time ... but don't think that would help to resolve the puzzle.

EDIT Something else, looking at the first image: if one follows the track down to the left, the amplitudes are decreasing for some "wavelengths", then increasing and below decreasing again.

russ_watters · Oct 23, 2023

Calling them "tumbling" is a thing and not worth the quibble vs "rotating", but they don't usually look like that. Usually they are just linear dashes. See:
https://www.satobs.org/tumble/tumbleintro.html

It would need to be a very large satellite for it to look like zig-zagging unless it is at very high magnification.

Vanadium 50 · Oct 23, 2023

I was thinking meteor rather than satellite.

andrew s 1905 · Oct 23, 2023

russ_watters said:

Calling them "tumbling" is a thing and not worth the quibble vs "rotating", but they don't usually look like that. Usually they are just linear dashes. See:
https://www.satobs.org/tumble/tumbleintro.html

It would need to be a very large satellite for it to look like zig-zagging unless it is at very high magnification.

Which would make me think it is relatively close. However, from a single observation it is most likely impossible to identify unless a candidate can be found. A rocket launch with a discarded "tumbling" stage for example.
Regards Andrew

DaveC426913 · Oct 23, 2023

Oh it's much more wibbly-wobbly* than I thought!

Its large-scale path is not straight; it wobbles side-to-side (see long reference line).
And its small-scale path is (inasmuch as the resolution will allow) not consistent (see short ticks, lower right).

*^{technical term}

I would suggest that

the side-to-side wobble is also periodic:

And, for the record, the satellite track in the upper right corner shows that none of the wobbles are camera artifacts:

FactChecker · Oct 23, 2023

My vote goes with @Baluncore 's post #4 -- an airplane on autopilot with blinking strobe lights. There appears to be some oscillation in the autopilot system.

DaveC426913 · Oct 23, 2023

FactChecker said:

My vote goes with @Baluncore 's post #4 -- an airplane on autopilot with blinking strobe lights. There appears to be some oscillation in the autopilot system.

I don't see how that would produce this zig-zag:

It does not appear to be merely the on/off of a strobe light. It's continuous, and it oscillates side-to-side.

It really appears to me to be a complex spiral.

russ_watters · Oct 23, 2023

DaveC426913 said:

I don't see how that would produce this zig-zag:

It does not appear to be merely the on/off of a strobe light. It's continuous, and it oscillates side-to-side.

It really appears to me to be a complex spiral.

Two lights; one on, one flashing, not quite on the same line.

I agree the airplane explanation is most likely.

Baluncore · Oct 23, 2023

If we knew the magnification, or star identification, we could evaluate the angular dimensions, so linear size of an aircraft at 36,000 ft, or a long rocket body in LEO.
What is the period in time of the pattern in the image?

Aircraft have strobe lights on wingtips and tail. There are also less bright continuous beacon lights on all flying aircraft. When you cannot see the light source directly, the skin of the aircraft or the contrail(s), may be illuminated by the continuous beacons or strobes.

The strobes now have accurately fixed rates, but often alternate, so are not synchronised. Boeing and Airbus employ different individual strobe systems, Boeing use equal spaced single pulses, Airbus often have a regular double pulse from each strobe, that is easier to follow at a distance.

timmdeeg · Oct 23, 2023

Perhaps I can obtain some more details.

From time to time I have an aircraft, but being deleted I can't show such an image. The main impression is straight lines in different colors and bigger in size.Here some stars HD.... from astrometry.net

DaveC426913 · Oct 23, 2023

Wow! You found it!

It is a very teeny section of the sky. So small I cannot show it and its context in the same pic.

Maybe somebody can work out the length of that path thats visible. It's tiny, on the order of a degree.

Here it is with Equatorial Coords (those are the ones that are time-agnostic, right?).

I'm not sure where to take this next. We still don't know what time or season this is.

russ_watters · Oct 23, 2023

Baluncore said:

If we knew the...

[correction on my first post] If we knew the time and location the photo was taken we could identify the exact plane, too, if it is one.

Devin-M · Oct 24, 2023

I think its a firefly, and the jaggedness caused by wing beats.

https://www.blueridgeoutdoors.com/hiking/searching-for-the-blue-ghost-firefly/

“Southern Africa is home to approximately 30 firefly species of the 2000 that exist globally.“

https://www.ingwelala.co.za/archives/fauna-flora/fireflies-2.html

DaveC426913 · Oct 24, 2023

Oh my goodness.

There are fireflies in Africa.
And there are fireflies that pulse rather than flash.

Devin-M · Oct 24, 2023

Butterfly effect, but with fireflies?

timmdeeg · Oct 24, 2023

I still wonder whether rotation could clarify this issue.
Lets assume we look at the rotational plane which is stabilised by gyroscopic forces. And further that a part of the object reflects sunlight, then depending on its speed and its rotational frequency such a track could result. - If so then the rotation period should be deducible from track details and the exposure time 181s.

Here are the data, hopefully helpful.

IMG_2152.CR2 10.Aug.2023 23:43

Name: IMG_2152.CR2

Maße: 2592 x 3888

Dateigröße: 11,6MB (12.130.712)

Kameramarke: Canon

Kameramodell: Canon EOS 1000D

Blendeneinstellung: F0

Blende: Finf

Brennweite: 1000 mm

Belichtungszeit: 181 s

Belichtungskorrektur: 0 EV

ISO-Empfindlichkeit: 1600

Urspr. Dat./Uhrz.: 10.08.23 23:43:05

Datum/Uhrz. digital: 10.08.23 23:43:05

Weißabgleich: Manual

Belichtungsmessung: Multi-segment

Blitz: No, compulsory

Belichtungsprogramm: Manual

Belichtungsmodus: Manual

Farbraum: sRGB

Ausrichtung: right, top

x-Maße in Pixel: 3888

y-Maße in Pixel: 2592

x-Auflösung: 72

y-Auflösung: 72

Auflösungseinheit: inch

Baluncore · Oct 24, 2023

N 50° 30' 0.00" E 7° 31' 36.97"
That is near Koblenz, between Cologne and Frankfurt in Germany.
Frankfurt, air-traffic central for Germany.

What a wild goose chase this has become. We are wasting our time.

DaveC426913 · Oct 24, 2023

Baluncore said:

N 50° 30' 0.00" E 7° 31' 36.97"
That is near Koblenz, between Cologne and Frankfurt in Germany.
Frankfurt, air-traffic central for Germany.

What a wild goose chase this has become. We are wasting our time.

I think the photo is from Namibia, but the OP is from Germany. And it appears the OP is just dabbling with their locale in a hypothetical exercise.

timmdeeg · Oct 24, 2023

I got this image, which shows two stars on the track, not hidden by something. Not sure if this is of any help.

DaveC426913 · Oct 24, 2023

timmdeeg said:

I got this image, which shows two stars on the track, not hidden by something. Not sure if this is of any help.

View attachment 334138

Is this a blow up from the same pic or is this a different photo?I am now really liking Devin-M's firefly hypothesis. It explains the track artifacts even better than the 'airplane lights' hypothesis.

chemisttree · Oct 24, 2023

Vanadium 50 said:

I am visually impaired, yes. But the word "tumbling" implies rotation, and not a a jagged path. There are probably thousands of asteroids that are tumbling in perfectly elliptical orbits.

Old satellites that have lost inertial control inevitably start to tumble. If they are geostationary satellites, we see them during the equinoxes as flashes of lights as some reflective, flat surface catches the sunlight and strobes across our location. Closer satellites produce a flashing track just like the OP posted.
It could also be a spinning&tumbling booster from a recent launch.

DaveC426913 · Oct 24, 2023

I'm sayin' this latest pic pretty much rules out any undirected cause (i.e. it's gotta be living thing).

(well, I s'pose a rocket booster that got winged by a meteor at the exact right time couldn't be completely ruled out).

chemisttree · Oct 24, 2023

Tumbling boosters look like that. Spinning, tumbling and precessing.

DaveC426913 · Oct 24, 2023

chemisttree said:

Tumbling boosters look like that.

Do they spontaneously stop tumbling mid-path?

(Insert obligatory T-wrench video here
)

Help identifying this Tumbling object in a night sky photo from Namibia

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